BC109.

[abendx]

I got a report today that BC109 has been found by the bad people... on Friday they apparently cut several trees and blocked off the "Snaggletooth" offshoot. This is bad news. If it is true, I'd guess that they will work on closing the rest of the trail.

I recently found a forum that listed GPS coordinates to BC109. It looks like their listing happened within the last two or three weeks... cause and effect would only go to make one wonder, was their listing the reason?

I have informed the moderators at that other site of the news and asked them to remove the directions they listed to BC109.... but the damage may have already been done.

[abendx]

The mod over at JKA removed the directions.... but told me that JKF has them posted as well. That might be a bit more difficult to get removed. Anyone know anyone that is a member over there that can plead the case to little Kim Jong-il ?

[Bert338]

I have to ask...what is BC109?

[TheBigDogg]

it is pretty awsome trail, here is a links:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=772

[Desert Dog]

I knew it was only a matter of time till someone started posting GPS routes on forums frequented by the Enviro-Nazis. People have tried really hard to keep these trails out of books and off the radar so we can have a cool place to wheel year-round. Snaggletooth is just south of the Chumash Wilderness Boundary...so WTF

Every 4x4 route out there is near a wilderness boundary. The whole area is a little bit of wheeling paradise surrounded by designated wilderness and study areas. The Sierra Club has been lobbying hard to close off the whole area and integrate it into the wilderness area.

Do we even know if it was the FS who cut the trees down? Sounds fishy, as I know some folks in that ranger district.

[Desert Dog]

*NEW INFO*

Well BC109 is officially on the radar now. Rumor has it that the Ventura County 4-Wheel Drive Club has adopted it. The VC4WDC, along with a forest service ranger and members of JK-Forum may have went out and closed that part of the trail down. They even put an "official" sign up now. Don't know what to think about this one!!!!

Our friends closing that part of the trail to motor vehicles (hikers & mountain bikes only);
[attachment=0]P5230047_.jpg[/attachment]


The new sign:
[attachment=1]P5230041_.jpg[/attachment]

[TheBigDogg]

look the dog even has his head down!!

[abendx]

[quote="desert dog"]*NEW INFO*[/quote]

Can I ask where you got this info from?

[abendx]

I guess I found some of it....

[img]http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/35/55/47385535/photos/Summer-Kickoff-Trail-Maintenance-05-22-10/P5220024.JPG[/img]

These pieces of shit are using built rigs to close a trail..... shame on them!

[Angel]

why not remove the trees

[castor07jk]

We do the same thing on Freeway Ridge to block illegal bypasses and trails in conjunction with the Forest Service.

If you move the tree after its been marked closed, we risk loosing all the trails in the area. Don't be part of the problem.

[Angel]

what makes a bypass illegal besides dangerous paths

[Desert Dog]

[quote="castor07jk"]We do the same thing on Freeway Ridge to block illegal bypasses and trails in conjunction with the Forest Service.

If you move the tree after its been marked closed, we risk loosing all the trails in the area. Don't be part of the problem.[/quote]

I understand the destruction that illegal bypasses cause but this is not a bypass, its a 4x4 route (just a wash like the other routes). So after decades of people running it, wonder why its closed now? Your right though, ignoring the sign will just make things worse. I will contact the Ranger station.

BTW; that sign and barrier will be gone after the first rain. Boulders get moved in that wash during a flash flood.

[castor07jk]

Chris i would also like to know why it was closed. You can try and contact the the ranger station. While i may not agree with the closure, as a responsible member of the offroad community got to obey the closure.

[Desert Dog]

I was once a member of a gun club that decided it was importantant to make reasonable accomodations with with the opposition in order to preserve the shooting sports in California. As a result, the public lost more 2nd ammendment rights.

I was also a member of a business coilition that found it important to endorse Barbara Boxer because she promices to pass pro-business legislation.

Wasn't it the "Kern County Fly Fishing Club" that got onboard with the Sierra Club's plan to stop stocking trout in the Kern River?

Just because they are a hunting, fishing, or off-road club does not mean that they make decisions in our best interest. I don't think that anyone with Infectious is promoting violating the law, and certainly I do not.

The forest service is not closing trails for the betterment of the world, they are closing them because of pressure from groups like the Sierra Club, and getting off-road clubs to do the dirty work. I don't think that club was out there purposefully trying to fuck us or working directly for the sierra club, but they were inadvertently doing their bidding. The sierra club has been very active in that ranger district with their demands.

I doubt that they were told that the Sierra Club wanted it closed, but if they were, that would be a different story. It sucks, but I don't see a conspiracy theory contrived by this offroad club.

[Dirt Princess]

I'm the one that removed the gps coords on JKA. We were not aware that BC109 was a trail that was kept off the radar as you say. I originally posted the coords (taken from another site) when Ventura 4x4 was doing a cleanup and thought it would be a positive thing to get people involved from the offroad community. Hopefully more info will come forward soon as to what is going on with BC109.

[abendx]

Yeah.... if I helped in something like this, I'd not be able to live with myself.

There is never any give with organizations like the Sierra Club.... they only know how to take.

How often do you hear about new trail openings... not often I bet. But as of late.... I have been hearing of a LOT of trail closings.

Soon... the only offroading that you will be able to participate in will be running in the illegal areas.

[Desert Dog]

[quote="abendx"]Soon... the only offroading that you will be able to participate in will be running in the illegal areas.[/quote]

There will always be malls Brad.

[abendx]

[quote="desert dog"][quote="abendx"]Soon... the only offroading that you will be able to participate in will be running in the illegal areas.[/quote]

There will always be malls Brad.[/quote]

I have been banished from most of the local malls.... the rent a cops found me posing on speed bumps.

[abendx]

DIRT PRINCESS forwarded me the following response she received regarding questions asked about BC109. Not exactly sure who wrote this, but as I understand it, it is someone from either JKF or VC4WD club. This person is apparently on Infectious as well, so maybe they would be willing to explain some of this.

[size=85][color=orange]I would like to begin by thanking you for your interest in preserving trails, as it goes without saying, it is important to do so in order to have these open for years, and even generations to come. With that said, I find it important to point out three important key aspects.

1) BC 109 (Badlands Corridor #109) as well as the not as known trails, BC 100 and BC 110, are all designated trails recognized by the US Forest Service. These trails are not only listed (most of the time with the GPS coordinates) in a national registry, they can also be found in California Trail Guidebooks, and even Forestry Trail Maps. What do trails like Miller, John Bull, and BC 109 have in common? They are all marked by a US Forest Service approved sign. Please be advised that in order for these trails to be “open” they are registered through the Service for approval, and in doing so (as bureaucracy goes) this information regarding these trails are free public knowledge… even to the tree hugging hippies in the Sierra Club.

2) Please do not be mistaken that the coordinates listed on web-sites is what led the Sierra Club listing it as “land to look after”, as I can personally tell you that the week prior to the Trail Head sign even being posted, two women from the Sierra Club went to the Ranger about their reservations regarding the trails. As a proud adopt a trail member of several trails, I can say this, the more important aspect of listing trail coordinates is not is not to be “Tight lipped” but rather to speak up in acknowledging that it is a trail and to NOT post about deviating from the designated trail, especially while on forums. Although you might be correct in noting that JKA was the only forum YOU could find to post these coordinates, I do have to point out; it is in fact listed on 7 other popular forums that I can account for.

3) Where you do have a valid point is in mentioning the specifics of Snaggletooth, on forums. With that in mind, I do think that any posts on threads that directly refer to Snaggletooth as a direct off shoot of BC 109 should be refrained from as well as existing posts erased. Please be advised of two things in reference to Snaggletooth. One, Snaggletooth was not just closed on Friday. It was never an “open” trail to begin with. I personally was there during the BC 109 Clean up, several weeks ago, when the sign was posted to refrain vehicles from proceeding up into it. As the Ranger, who is a friend of mine, mentioned, it cannot be deemed as a trail as it does not have a clear and accessible exit, and it is does not meet the requirements to be deemed safe when it comes to the specifics needed when creating a trail from a Main water runoff and known flash flood area. Two, I understand how it saddens many people that this is now posted as an area to keep out of and I personally was completely outraged when I was told the sign had to be posted. Please realize that previous to about a year and a half ago, Snaggletooth was known by many names, including Oil Pan Alley (The name obviously derived from the carnage to many) but was specially named during one key groups (one of many) trips back there to clear the way and allow everyone to make it further back into the Crestline. During that trip, a well known Jeep lover/well loved 7 year old girl literally had to have her mom pull out her tooth while on the trail to avoid the pain of the loose tooth being pushed against while in the back of a bumpy TJ. Considering what that Little Girl, and the Jeepers with her, went through with their vehicles, the name Snaggletooth was born, and the name has since stuck.

Please do not see this letter as any kind of attack as that is not what it represents. It does however, educate and clear any misconceptions that there might be in reference post about certain trails. [/color][/size]

Some obvious questions, at least for me, are brought up by this message.

1. I would like to know which seven other [i]popular[/i] forums has BC109 been posted about with exact directions to the trail?
2. Which USFS document lists BC109 (or other BCxxx trails) as a designated trail. National Registry? California Trail Guidebooks? Forestry Trail Maps?
3. USFS "approved" sign on BC109. I have never seen this.... has anyone else?

I don't know about you... but this kind of response makes me sick.

Either you are part of the problem or the solution... clearly the person that wrote this is part of the Sierra Club's solution.

It's on boys and girls.... there is a major land grab by the Sierra Club and organizations like them that we are witnessing... some of it being fueled by the Obama Administration's, American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. Sad that money set aside to help out of work Americans is being used to close public land.

[Desert Dog]

[quote="abendx"]As the Ranger, who is a friend of mine, mentioned, it cannot be deemed as a trail as it does not have a clear and accessible exit[/quote]
NONE OF THE BC109 TRAILS have an exit!!! you have to turn around and go out the same way on ALL OF THEM

[quote="abendx"]1. I would like to know which seven other [i]popular[/i] forums has BC109 been posted about with exact directions to the trail?
2. Which USFS document lists BC109 (or other BCxxx trails) as a designated trail. National Registry? California Trail Guidebooks? Forestry Trail Maps?
3. USFS "approved" sign on BC109. I have never seen this.... has anyone else? [/quote]

1) Usually, when GPS coordinates of trail runs on BC109 and several other trails are posted, people remind the moderators of those forums and the posts are removed. The only forums I am aware of that did not are JK-Forum and MyJeepRocks. I have been told that Sierra Club members monitor off-road forums religiously, and get much of their information on trails / riding areas from forums.
2) I have a USFS map that designates the trails "West Dry Canyon", "Dry Canyon", "BC109A", "BC109B", etc. So maps of the area and these trails do exist. There are no trail guidebooks with BC109 in them. Wells was specifically ASKED NOT to print this trail in his guidebook due to its close proximity to the Chumash Wilderness Area. Many tried to keep this little Gem off the radar because they enjoyed camping, shooting, and wheeling here; and knew the Sierra Club would take a keen interest in the area.
3) There was a sign directing you to Dome Springs, which is a campground, and small signs inside the dirt road system do mark trails - but are easily missed because they are not located in places where most people enter the wash. "Snaggletooth Canyon" or "oil-pan alley" has been ran for 30 years by local clubs, and the rangers frequently see us in there and have never said anything. The wilderness boundary is on the other side of the wash, so why would they.

I know who the poster of that message is (you do too Brad), and does monitor this board. I know they mean well and loves to wheel. I just hate that the off-road organizations roll over so easily. From his post, it seems like this is how things work;

1) Sierra Club hates 4x4s running a particular trail, so complains to the Forest Service.
2) Forest service organizes "clean-up day" with local off-road club.
3) Off-road club closes trail.

I'm writing a letter right now to the Forestry Service in opposition to this closure. I doubt it will do anything, but at least it makes me feel like I did something. *Rant over*

[abendx]

Thanks Chris... good info.

This is bad for the Off Road community. I don't care what anyone's good intentions might be. In my opinion, bending over and taking it up the rear for the Sierra Club can be likened to 1930/40s Germans turning their head while the Nazis carted the Jews off. You know what.... scratch that last comment. Those that assisted in closing this trail aren't like the ones that turned their heads.... they are more like the ones that physically assisted stuffing them into ovens.

Please take a minute to thank the VC4WD club.... they are actively assisting the Sierra Club reach their goals.

[VICTORG93307]

What really sucks about this is that ive heard tons of stories about this trail and seen tons of videos on it, and now sadly ill never be able to live the BC109 experience "legaly".
I hope that in time it doesnt come down to all of us having spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on our rigs only to be used in the street. Ive read up on so many trail closures its getting damn right annoying. I up untill the last few months never understood what the stickers that read "Fuck The Sierra Club" really meant but i just ordered me the biggest one you can get online.

[Dirt Princess]

Good info and I'm sure there were good intentions with the local off-road club and an underlying intention that might not have been known. Just playing devil's advocate here.......

1) Sierra Club hates 4x4s running a particular trail, so complains to the Forest Service.
2) Forest service organizes "clean-up day" with local off-road club.
3) Off-road club closes trail.

[Desert Dog]

AFAIK, The main wash (BC109) has been adopted by Ventura County 4 Wheelers, so is open and should remain open until the Sierra Club tries to close that one.

Let me clarify, that I see no problems with BC109 run reports and directions to the trail - its a public trail for us all to enjoy. My problem is when people post GPS [u][b]ROUTES[/b][/u] online. The upper trail runs on the border with the designated wilderness area, and its easy for someone who doesn't know to stray into the wilderness. The first time the environazis go up dry canyon and see tire tracks in the wilderness area - everything will be off limits.