Rear Locker

[VIC]

Should I go with an electric/cable actuated locker or a regular type in the rear ? Looking at Auburn Dana 44 Ected Max Manual Locker - 545019

[Goatman]

[quote="VIC"]Should I go with an electric/cable actuated locker or a regular type in the rear ? Looking at Auburn Dana 44 Ected Max Manual Locker - 545019[/quote]

It depends on if you have a stick or automatic, and how much you daily drive the Jeep. Also depends on what tire size you plan on running, since there are 33 and 35 spline axle upgrades for the D44 which will also determine which locker you use. Detroit makes a 33 spline locker and ARB makes a 35 spline locker for the D44. If you have a stick shift and daily drive the Jeep I'd recommend a selectable rear locker, if you have an auto or don't daily drive it then it doesn't matter so much.

[chuckanut105]

Why a select able rear for a manual trans? Ive never heard of this before.

[Frylock]

I would stay away from electric lockers. They are not very strong, my rear went out during a rubicon run a couple years ago. I would go with ARB or OX for a selectable locker, the Detroit automatic locker is cheaper and is what I will be going with, some day..

[VIC]

It is my daily driver and is a stick shift. I kinda lick the fact that it is a limited slip type that can be selected to full locker when needed. Now what am I going to put in the front ?

[Lake_v2]

When shifting a stick that is equipped with an auto locker the load change during.shifts is uncomfortable to some. Basically if your not careful it can lane change on ya.

[chuckanut105]

[quote="Lake_v2"]When shifting a stick that is equipped with an auto locker the load change during.shifts is uncomfortable to some. Basically if your not careful it can lane change on ya.[/quote]

Oh I thought it was some kind of mechanical issue. I knew that would happen, even in a auto with a hard shifting shift kit that can happen.

[Goatman]

[quote="chuckanut105"]Why a select able rear for a manual trans? Ive never heard of this before. [/quote]


An automatic locker differentiates by releasing the outside wheel in a corner, the outside tire spins ahead and all the power goes to the inside wheel. This means that when driving on a windy road the power is switching back and forth from side to side as you corner and as you accelerate and decelerate. There is also some play in the center pins which push against the side gears to make this all happen. With an auto trans the torque converter keeps the locker more loaded and there is less "feeling" what the locker is doing in the corners, so potentially with a stick shift you'll feel the locker much more than you will with an auto. This might or might not be offensive based on the driver, but it is a normal recommendation to consider a selectable locker over an automatic locker if the jeep is a stick.

[Goatman]

[quote="VIC"]It is my daily driver and is a stick shift. I kinda lick the fact that it is a limited slip type that can be selected to full locker when needed. Now what am I going to put in the front ?[/quote]

A limited slip will never lock up completely. It uses clutches or small pinion type gears as friction to resist one axle turning at a different speed than the other axle. But, it can only resist the two axles turning at different speeds (one tire spinning), it can't make them turn at the same speed like a locker does. A LS typically has the ability to transfer around 30% of the torque to the axle with the least traction, while a locker puts 100% of the torque to both axles.

Of course, you can fake out an open carrier or a LS by using the brakes to artificially add resistance to the tire with the least traction forcing power to the tire with more traction, but you have to be careful and not over do it or you could break an axle.

[REDxj5150]

[quote="Goatman"]

Of course, you can fake out an open carrier or a LS by using the brakes to artificially add resistance to the tire with the least traction forcing power to the tire with more traction, but you have to be careful and not over do it or you could break an axle.[/quote]

spider gears tend to give also, but I enjoyed the challenge of driving without lockers.

[chuckanut105]

Good info. Might be re-thinking my locker ideas.

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[Desert Dog]

Stay away from the Auburn ECTED. It is a poorly designed POS. It uses clutch packs both as a LS and to lock - so doesn't totally lock when new, and doesn't do anything when the clutch pack wears. I have seen these fail before the clutch pack even had a chance to wear. A little research on this should change your mind about that purchase.

The Eaton e-locker is a pretty good and reliable unit. It will function more reliably than an ARB, but is not as strong of a dif unit. I ran one of these in the rear of my JK right after I bought it, and Bigfoot runs one in the rear of his TJ right now. The only real negative of the e-locker, is that you have to roll a little distance before they engage/dis-engage. This is sometimes a big problem in the difficult rocks. Its a great locker for daily drivers, people who frequently encounter icy roads, and rigs that see moderate off-road use. But they are not ideal for hard-core rock crawling.

ARBs are strong as hell. Ive seen several break over the years, but they put up with a ton of severe abuse to get to that point. ARB also has fantastic customer service. Like an e-locker, ARBs are great for daily drivers or folks who spend a lot of time on icy roads. The "cone dodgers" love the versatility of being able to instantly engage/dis-engage their lockers for tight maneuvers. The KOH type rigs hate the ARB because there is too much that can go wrong and fail, as the ARB relies on air, electricity, and mechanical power to operate. Seems like almost every trip we take, someone is struggling to keep their ARB working. I had ARBs in my XJ, and other than a couple of ruined trips (solenoid and an air line), it worked good.

Detroit lockers are what I prefer now for a rig with an auto trans. Pretty invisible on the street and works when you need it on the trail. Nothing to fail except the mechanical parts, which are pretty tough. The Detroit is smoother, quieter, and stronger than a luchbox locker. I had a YJ with a stick and Detroits for about 5 years; you really had to be used to driving that Jeep to predict what it would do. It could get squirrelly when you let off the clutch on the freeway after a shift, and you had to make really smooth turns. Most people who hate Detroits drive a stick, and most people who love them drive an auto. If you have manual locking hubs in the front, then a Detroit belongs up there.

I have only really seen the cable-actuated OX lockers in use. Owners of them seem to be constantly under their Jeeps messing with the cables, which stretch over time and get out of adjustment. They have an Electric actuated locker now, but I have never seen one being seriously used and abused. The actual dif itself looks very strong.

[Crazy Sammy]

i have a samurai with toyota axles and i run yukon zip lockers front and back! which are air actuated and is a replica of the arb but about 250-300$ cheaper a piece! people would say that im pretty hard on my rig! haha i run a set of 40'' and a set of 43'' one and only superswampers and mine have held up great and they come with a 2000$ wantee if they break and it breaks something else they will pay up to 2k for repairs! i love mine i just hate my viair pump. i have been running my first one for 2 yrs and just recently bought another for a high pinion setup and the lockers have never gave me any issues but just keep your air system working good and i think you will love them as well! i have a 3rd setup with a detriot in it and havent run it! but i have run detriot before in high hp rigs and you cant go wrong there either. just my 2 cents

[chrisrigby]

Just curious is there any difference in reaction to a Detroit with a 5 speed and a spool? I never have squirley issues with my spool except on really wash boarded roads.

[Desert Dog]

[quote="chrisrigby"]Just curious is there any difference in reaction to a Detroit with a 5 speed and a spool? I never have squirley issues with my spool except on really wash boarded roads.[/quote]
The fact that you only get squirelly on washboard roads is most likely your really short wheelbase rather than your spool. Short wheelbase sucks on washboard.

The spool is not street friendly by any stretch of the imagination (especially on a heavy rig), but it also will not engage and disengage like the detroit will. Remember, the Detroit engages when torque is applied, and releases whith no torque. So the act of shifting (especially a hard clutch tequnique + low jerky gears) often causes the Detroit to engage/disengage while at high speed. This is not the case at all for an auto trans though, because of the reasons Richard pointed out.

[chrisrigby]

No it wasn't street friendly lol but it's what I could afford so it's what I had. About the Detroit locking with shift shock with any kind of tire and horsepower makes sense.

[Lake_v2]

Spools are street friendly in dry weather and straight lines lol, but are very predictable, you always know that its either working or broke to pieces lol

I occassionally drive mine to work or around town, but it can be a pita lol

[Goatman]

[quote="chrisrigby"]Just curious is there any difference in reaction to a Detroit with a 5 speed and a spool? I never have squirley issues with my spool except on really wash boarded roads.[/quote]

A Detroit will not scuff the tires like a spool will around corners. Like I said above, the Detroit differentiates (allows one tire to turn faster than the other around corners) by uncoupling the outside tire. When people feel a Detroit they usually assume that they feel it locking up, but they are actually feeling it unlock. The sensations come from driving only one tire at a time, and the locker switching sides back and forth in corners, when on and off the gas in a corner, or when shifting around a corner with a stick.

A spool can "feel" more street friendly because it does not uncouple around corners, so there is never that switching sides or driving one tire sensation. Of course, this is sort of false sense because while the spool isn't differentiating it is scuffing the tires and wearing them out faster.